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Post by pinder91 on Nov 6, 2007 15:54:17 GMT -5
The specs aren't included in the drawings, but some are listed elsewhere in the manual. I haven't found torque specs for everything yet, but I also haven't looked that hard, plus I know they are listed in the dealer manual.
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Post by pinder91 on Nov 6, 2007 16:22:38 GMT -5
I've come up with somewhat of a parts list for the car. I'm not certain on everything, so ideas a welcome. Engine (2.0): JE 8.5:1 .020 over pistons Crower Rods ARP everything Clevite 77 bearings FFWD butcher crank Mistu MLS headgasket BC 280's Crower dual springs/retainers 3g lifters 1mm oversized valves O-ringed head Jay racing alt. relocation bracket SBR/Kinetic race fmic (3" piping) Tial bov gt4094 or gt4202 Shearer topmount manifold Tial WG/s Adjustable Cam Gears JMF SMIM 75mm TB -8an Fuel line Fuel pump Injectors Aeromotive AFPR Koyo/Fluidyne aluminum radiator Ext. Oil Cooler Drivetrain: TRE trans Twin disc clutch Suspension/Brakes: 10pt chromoly cage Megan coilovers Energy suspension bushings DME rear camber kit RM DSM sways Baer track kit Engine Management/Electronics: AEM EMS MSD DIS-2 300m cop's Autometer Boost, Oil Press, Water Temp gauges AEM Uego Wideband Mini-battery up front I'm sure I forgot a few things, but that's what I'm planning so far.
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Post by 99gst_racer on Nov 6, 2007 18:05:09 GMT -5
A few things I would change if it were mine:
* 9.0:1 compression, because this is a performance build.
* Dont use the M77 rod bearings. They aren't made for performance anymore.
* Felpro MLS
* DV/DT Fab FMIC
* AMS or Magnus race SMIM. Something with a larger, more round plenum.
* Twin Bosch 044's ran in parallel, (not series).
* Straight cut gear tranny (F syncros!) lol
* Re-locate the battery to the rear to reduce the amount of wire for the cut-off switch, and also to "help" with weight distribution.
I'll add more later - time to leave work now!
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Post by SPOOLD on Nov 6, 2007 18:29:04 GMT -5
i'd i actually stick with 8.5:1 or even 8.3:1 and a 40r. with such a large size turbo the minor benefit from earlier spool should be able to be easily offset with higher boost at a more efficient rate. it's gonna be a drag car so its going to be in peak powerband most of the time.
the sways aren't really totally necessary for a drag car but cant really hurt and with having the subframe out to do the bushings and everything i can't think of a better time to just do it.
a twin disk setup would be intirely worth it for what your planning. as for the dogbox vs tre dispute, i'd run with a tricked out tre box for easy of use. however i knew he had been messing with other competitors dogboxes looking for ways to improve and create his own so he might have something in the works.
external oil cooler is also a no-brainer in my opinion. one thing to consider though is maybe one of the aftermarket oil pans like the moroso. my main thought would be more oil capacity=cooler running oil temps. just a thought but very well might be unneccesary.
have you thought about going to a manual rack?
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Post by pinder91 on Nov 6, 2007 19:28:20 GMT -5
I've already got a complete older set of Clevite bearings that I got from Lafond. They are supposed to be the good ones.
The lower compression will give me a safer tuning window. I can deal with half a millisecond later spool.
I'd like to still drive the car on the street from time to time, so that is the dilemma about the turbo. I think the 40 would be a little nicer for this, plus it is still 9 second capable. Although, a 42 would allow me to go faster in the future if I chose to. Streetability is also the reason I'm sticking with the power steering.
JMF did just release their drag smim, so I may look into that. I'll be talking to Brent (91tsiguy) on talk about it. Since he was the one that designed it (as far as I know).
For fuel pumps, I still have no idea. I currently have a 255 in the car. I'm worried that even with another parallel 255 I may still run out of fuel. I've slightly looked into using twin Bosch's. What are these capable of?
As far as a fmic, I've looked at TJ's ETS and it is nice. It may be a better choice, but I have to look into them more. Once concern I have is keeping the fogs. I'd like to keep them, so I'm looking for a kit that will allow me to. Is that possible with the DV/DT fab kit? I also want to run 3" piping.
I know I wouldn't need the RM DSM sway bars at all for drag, but may do it just to make the street driving that much more enjoyable. Though, with the drag radials I don't want to be doing much aggressive turning.
I planned to go Dan style with my oil pan. I have a NT pan sitting around that I'd like to weld an AN fitting in. I can't imagine an aftermarket pan would help very much on top of the external cooler. I don't plan to go back to back to back on runs, but it is an option to look at.
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Post by dizzum_D on Nov 6, 2007 19:57:14 GMT -5
DV/DT FMIC is 2g only.
If I were going your route I'd get a big ass 4" ETS core w/ 3" outlets. As for keeping the fogs, if its your pet peeve thats fine, but other than that ditch them. Would be kinda dumb IMO to have a 9 second drag car but your IC setup with limited to what you "could" have done b/c you wanted to keep the fog lights. eh.... der..
Really look into the JMF race manifold, its phukin baaaad.
As for fuel pumps, you would be perfectly fine running a setup like mine if you plan on running gasoline only. If you ever want to experiment with E-85 or something else, your going to need to pumps ran in parallel.
Jeff on the link boards recently did some testing, and he has the same fuel pump setup as me. A 255 intank feeding an 044. He recorded taking 39 seconds to fill a gallon jug with fuel. He then redid the setup only switching the 044 from inline to feeding from the tank just like the 255, then meeting up in a Y-block. He recorded filling the 1 gallon jug in only 19 seconds! Amazing, a 93% increase in fuel supply.
If I ever change my setup again, I'll just buy another 044 and rig them both up on the stock intank hanger assembly. As it sits now, my current fuel setup is good for 700+ whp on gas.
I run aprrox 9:1 in my setup and it runs 31 psi daily on pump gas. The CR on the pistons is 8.8:1 but added the deck and head milling along with a stock thickness HG and I assume closer to 9:1. Honestly, I don't think you'd notice one bit of difference with 8.3 or 9:1 CR, except that is, for off boost throttle response. The 9:1 will give the car a hair bit more ummph when cruising out of boost.
I think if I were you I'd go 4094. Easily get into 9's, and still a bit smaller for trying to fit it in there with power steering. I'm with you on that, I'll try and keep my PS for as long as I can.
I don't know what I wanna do with my car on this off season. Half of me wants to just let it sit, half of me wants to part it out, and half of me wants to build a 2.0, and get something along the lines of a 42r and rev the bitch to 9k.
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Post by pinder91 on Nov 6, 2007 22:15:41 GMT -5
I do plan on possibly experimenting with E85, so I guess the twin in-tank 044's would be a safe choice. Is there a tech article on that somewhere? I've seen the singe in-tank 044 writeup on talk.
As long as I find a FMIC that has backdoor piping, I don't see there being a problem with keeping the fogs. I may even asking TJ to check the measurements on his for me.
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Post by wishihadatalon on Nov 6, 2007 22:19:26 GMT -5
DV/DT FMIC is 2g only. If I were going your route I'd get a big ass 4" ETS core w/ 3" outlets. As for keeping the fogs, if its your pet peeve thats fine, but other than that ditch them. Would be kinda dumb IMO to have a 9 second drag car but your IC setup with limited to what you "could" have done b/c you wanted to keep the fog lights. eh.... der.. Really look into the JMF race manifold, its phukin baaaad. As for fuel pumps, you would be perfectly fine running a setup like mine if you plan on running gasoline only. If you ever want to experiment with E-85 or something else, your going to need to pumps ran in parallel. Jeff on the link boards recently did some testing, and he has the same fuel pump setup as me. A 255 intank feeding an 044. He recorded taking 39 seconds to fill a gallon jug with fuel. He then redid the setup only switching the 044 from inline to feeding from the tank just like the 255, then meeting up in a Y-block. He recorded filling the 1 gallon jug in only 19 seconds! Amazing, a 93% increase in fuel supply. If I ever change my setup again, I'll just buy another 044 and rig them both up on the stock intank hanger assembly. As it sits now, my current fuel setup is good for 700+ whp on gas. I run aprrox 9:1 in my setup and it runs 31 psi daily on pump gas. The CR on the pistons is 8.8:1 but added the deck and head milling along with a stock thickness HG and I assume closer to 9:1. Honestly, I don't think you'd notice one bit of difference with 8.3 or 9:1 CR, except that is, for off boost throttle response. The 9:1 will give the car a hair bit more ummph when cruising out of boost. I think if I were you I'd go 4094. Easily get into 9's, and still a bit smaller for trying to fit it in there with power steering. I'm with you on that, I'll try and keep my PS for as long as I can. I don't know what I wanna do with my car on this off season. Half of me wants to just let it sit, half of me wants to part it out, and half of me wants to build a 2.0, and get something along the lines of a 42r and rev the bitch to 9k. You explained my front mount For what it is worth, there a lot of people who do not run any sort of oil cooler and see no problems with it. We didn't run one on Ben's colt and we never had any problems. The only time I would worry about it, is if I road raced the car. Also make sure you get arp L19 studs, and I would consider a stock composite gasket with an o-ringed head. Buschur and many others have said that this is the best setup you can run.
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Post by 99gst_racer on Nov 7, 2007 10:22:09 GMT -5
I don't know what I wanna do with my car on this off season. Half of me wants to just let it sit, half of me wants to part it out, and half of me wants to build a 2.0, and get something along the lines of a 42r and rev the bitch to 9k. Bad things happen when all THREE halves of Dan are trying to think at once. LOL
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Post by 99gst_racer on Nov 7, 2007 11:02:17 GMT -5
Tim Zimmer just recently put down 740 AWHP with his GT4088 on his 7-bolt engine. Tim was using an in-tank 255 feeding an in-line 255 and 1000 CC injectors. His injectors maxed out before he ran out of fuel pump. With his set-up, at max PSI, his fuel pressure was at 92 PSI and that will make his fuel supply taper off to about 270-280 LPH.
I just posted the above as a reference of what will be needed to make the power that you're looking for.
Pinder, are you planning on running an OE gas tank or a fuel cell? Also check the part number on those Clevites. If it ends in "P", then they are good, but if it ends in "AL", then I would ditch them for this build.
Regarding the fuel pump(s) - I would run anything in parallel. In series, the pressure won't fall off as fast, but it also wont be as high of flow to begin with. Wither parallel, flow drop-off is worse, but even at 50 psi of boost, the flow is almost 200lph higher with two 255's ran in parallel over ran in series.
I haven't seen the new JMFab race SMIM yet. I'll have to check it out as soon as he's done switching servers.
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Post by pinder91 on Nov 7, 2007 12:31:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Paul. I've got one box of MS-2076P, and a double pack of CB-1120AL. What would you suggest I get instead? The new JMF Drag SMIM looks very similar to this: I'm waiting to hear the numbers compaired to their Race version SMIM. So for fuel I'm assuming I'll need bigger than 1000cc injectors. I've seen many recommendations for 1150cc, and a couple for 1600cc. I'm still not sure on pumps. I'm keeping the factory tank, and I'd like to run parallel as well. I think Jake Montgomery is still running the twin 255's in-tank, but I could see that being a problem if more fuel is needed. Although, I'm hoping I won't have to use more fuel that that. Plus there's the E-85 dilemma. A Bosch 044 sounds good, but I don't think there's room to fit 2 in the tank.
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Post by dizzum_D on Nov 7, 2007 18:07:27 GMT -5
Pinder, 2 044's will fit in there, but its not going to be a drop in affair. However, I assure you it will be worth it. I know you don't have access to the dsmlink boards, but there is an active thread regarding 2 pumps ran in parallel that you should read. If you want, PM me and I'll hook you up with my username and password so you can read through it. It should convince you to run 2 pumps in parrallel.
If not, Albert from DVDT just released a custom CND's bracket that allows you to run a waterman or aeromotive mechanical fuel pump directly off a cam gear with no belts. Its a bad ass setup. However, with the cost of the pump and the bracket, etc, it gets pretty expensive, when the twin parallel bosch setup will support 1000whp easily. The 1150's are THE BEST injectors for idle, cruise and power, so they are the best easily street injectors. Angelo runs the 1600's and I believe he has then tuned in pretty well though.
Look in to the ACL bearings.
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Post by dizzum_D on Nov 7, 2007 18:08:42 GMT -5
Oh yeah fuck shearer.
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Post by Green92gsx on Nov 7, 2007 21:01:12 GMT -5
I'd vote for 9.0-1 Kiggly racing valve springs and retainers Felpro or mitu mls no- oring A1 head studs
The 1600's can be a bit herky jerky at light part throttle. If you go aem it should be able to dial out no problem.
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Post by pinder91 on Nov 7, 2007 21:02:20 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I've heard you say that before. I know JMF is working on some manifolds, and I know you're an advocate of Punishment Racing. I think I'm going to wait and see what becomes available in the near future. As far as the dual 044's, I'll definitely take you up on that offer. I'd like to read what's going on. Thanks!
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