|
Post by Starless on May 27, 2007 19:53:39 GMT -5
You are aware that some crushed 1g bov's flutter too. And I highly doubt tial would put out any product that was crap. I will even do my best to have a tial employee chime in This is TJ
|
|
|
Post by autox4fun on May 27, 2007 20:48:15 GMT -5
Yah, thats kinda what I was thinking. It sounds good I bet, but I heard that the flutter from a Type R is more than just air hitting a closed plate. That blow off valve is nice, just watch for surge I guess. werd. the flutter of a tial or type R might sound 'cool' but it's doing more damage than good most the time. Explain...
|
|
|
Post by 2gDSMdynasty on May 28, 2007 0:17:22 GMT -5
I found just some random descriptions about the type R; It is a badass bov, it just seems theres a general consensus about how it should be used. I wanted this BOV for a LONG time, so I looked into it for a while. I guess if it works with no ill effect, run that shit; I would. LOL "The R-Type BOV is good for those who have replaced their stock turbos with larger ones and are running more boost pressure. GReddy offers the R-Type BOV, which should only be used for high-output race engines in excess of 500hp. A blow off valve relieves pressure that builds up in the intake system when the throttle is closed quickly (between shifts, for example). This valve is an extremely important part of any turbo system, and allows quick boost response and greatly increases the life of a turbocharger. Original equipment valves function well, however they tend to be unreliable at higher boost levels. " -Modacar racing accessories "Reviewer: T. Magnum from Ft. Wayne, IN Awsome BOV if you plan on running over 18 lbs. It's designed for big boost levels, so get it if you have a BIG turbo. Sounds great." "The spring stiffness adjustment screw and the three different sizes give the GReddy user the option to match vehicles with mild upgrades to heavily tuned engines. There are many factors in matching a blow-off valve to an application, valve location, turbocharger size and pressure, but as a general rule of thumb, we recommend the Type RS for 100-400hp, Type R for 260-450hp and the Stiff Spring Type R for over 400hp applications. Also available in easy to install kit form for many turbocharged vehicles." -Turbo Wholesale Distribution Either bay, that BOV is still BA tits ;D PS Sorry Aaron, I know you dont want to see this but.... cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180120723735&rd=1,1
|
|
|
Post by autox4fun on May 28, 2007 8:52:10 GMT -5
That's what I was hoping to see... instead of "your stupid" "no your stupid" remarks.... bring the facts, educate, teach something! Thanks AJ...
|
|
|
Post by Starless on May 28, 2007 10:19:22 GMT -5
But has anyone set up the spring pressure with engine vacuum? Like the proper way to crush a 1g bov. Real compressor surge (when you hit the surge line on your turbo) seems like it is way worse than a slow acting bov at part throttle. Also Aaron's valve leaked until he adjusted the spring pressure. So the proper way to setup an adjustable bov is to use a vacuum pump and get it dialed in. Also this is why tial sells many different spring options, so you may set it up based on your engines vacuum at idle. www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8384/crushBOV.htmlSome food for thought. It even explains how to setup a greedy valve TJ again.
|
|
|
Post by dsm on May 28, 2007 17:37:05 GMT -5
You are aware that some crushed 1g bov's flutter too. And I highly doubt tial would put out any product that was crap. I will even do my best to have a tial employee chime in This is TJ Yes i am aware and yes tial puts out quality products, the flutter of a crushed 1g BOV is usually from the plunger surging open, but surging with a type R, tial or any improperly adjusted BOV in the sense that its opening and slamming shut because the vehicle is not running very high boost and/or not pulling enough vaccum is slighty to extremely damaging. Ever seen a compressor wheel from running a car without a BOV or an improperly crushed BOV (IE: idiot takes the term 'crushed' literally and simply crushes it in a vice, rendering it useless.) ? the compressor wheel can in some cases break the blades off. I was in no way putting down the quality of this product, i was simply saying that it's applications are listed for a reason and just because you 'think' it works on your set up, doesnt mean you're smarter than the manufacture.
|
|
|
Post by Ecl1psE5 on May 28, 2007 22:42:40 GMT -5
Regardless of the BOV, lol. and thank you for all your posts good or bad, i'm still working out the fine adjustments. The MegaSquirt is installed and tuned. Matt installed it for me sunday, got a good driving base tune, and TJ fine tuned the top end tonight. Its running very well and pulling nice and hard. I'm very happy so far, and i don't even have the launch control hooked up yet. ;D So thank you very much Matt and TJ for helping me out this weekend, and now i look forward to next weekend. CAMS..... so much more work.
|
|
|
Post by wishihadatalon on May 28, 2007 22:46:17 GMT -5
Woot for Matt's hard work, great base tune, and flawless timing map
|
|
|
Post by XtremeRS2GNT on May 29, 2007 9:00:47 GMT -5
Woot for Matt's hard work, great base tune, and flawless timing map Ehh not to bad for numbers i basically pulled out of thin air ;D How close was the VE table at full boost? Did you have to lean/richen it up from what my numbers were at? Curious to see how close my estimates were..
|
|
|
Post by wishihadatalon on May 29, 2007 11:39:40 GMT -5
Woot for Matt's hard work, great base tune, and flawless timing map Ehh not to bad for numbers i basically pulled out of thin air ;D How close was the VE table at full boost? Did you have to lean/richen it up from what my numbers were at? Curious to see how close my estimates were.. Needed to richen it. Its wierd, at 15psi the bins were in the 80s and at 20psi they were damn near 100 which isn't like any of the other dsms I have played with with m.s. Either way it works and hauls ass. Turbo spools just before 3500rpms and after the bov is adjusted right it should hold steady at 20 or whatever we put it at.
|
|
|
Post by XtremeRS2GNT on May 29, 2007 12:29:39 GMT -5
The VE table looks that way between 15 and 20 psi because the 18g's efficiency combined with the engine setup, really starts to push air flow after 15 psi. 18g's really start to kick in at 20 psi. 3500 spool sounds really high. After i got my FMIC in my car, i can start to build like 1 psi at almost 2000 rpm Almost sounds like the BOV isnt staying shut in vacuum or very low boost..either that or a boost leak somewhere..
|
|
|
Post by wishihadatalon on May 29, 2007 13:57:46 GMT -5
With time we will get it
|
|
|
Post by Ecl1psE5 on May 29, 2007 15:42:07 GMT -5
Not sure if it matters, but my exhast housing is ported, so i'm not sure how that effects my spool up, either way, 3500 isnt bad. it still kicks my ass.
Also, with the BOV issue, today i "softened" it almost all the way out, and got it to open with 20 inHG with a hand pump, but it would open at idle, so i tightened it a bit more, got it to drive fine. But it wouldnt hold more than 12 psi. so i started twisting it in a bit, and driving, and was still having the same problem. I had an idea to disconnect the extra boost source (the fast acting valve), so that there isnt extra boost pushing up on the diaphram. This helped a bit and i am now about 16 psi. the valve under full boost blows off like a normal greddy, but i already am hearing a slight amount of flutter under low boost. i'm going to keep working on it. :-)
|
|
|
Post by XtremeRS2GNT on May 29, 2007 15:54:53 GMT -5
Not sure if it matters, but my exhast housing is ported, so i'm not sure how that effects my spool up, either way, 3500 isnt bad. it still kicks my ass. Also, with the BOV issue, today i "softened" it almost all the way out, and got it to open with 20 inHG with a hand pump, but it would open at idle, so i tightened it a bit more, got it to drive fine. But it wouldnt hold more than 12 psi. so i started twisting it in a bit, and driving, and was still having the same problem. I had an idea to disconnect the extra boost source (the fast acting valve), so that there isnt extra boost pushing up on the diaphram. This helped a bit and i am now about 16 psi. the valve under full boost blows off like a normal greddy, but i already am hearing a slight amount of flutter under low boost. i'm going to keep working on it. :-) A ported exhaust housing wont effect spool that much, maybe a few hundred rpm..To clairfy, you dont build any boost until 3500, or full boost until 3500? I've got the same turbo for the most part as you, and it spools up way before 3500. Heck, i can get full boost 15 psi at 3500. I still say something isnt right somewhere. I'm not really familiar with the BOV you have, but my basic BOV tunning procedure is to free rev the engine with my hand at the BOV outlet. It should discharge air after the rev up, but the valve should stay closed at full idle vac. If the valve doesnt open at a free rev up, its too tight. If it leaks at idle, its too loose. BOV spring tension isnt what keeps the BOV leaking at boost, its to fine tune the opening/closing of the valve at engine vacuum. Some engines have more or less vac at idle/cruise than others, and this is what the adjustment is for. Under boost, you have positive pressure on BOTH sides of the BOV piston, this is what keeps it shut. I dont know if thats how your BOV works, but that how the "common" ones work. If you have any flutter from a BOV, that means its set too hard. The flutter is the piston going open/shut quickly, which means a partial obstruction of airflow from the BOV. Is it enough to cause harmful compressor surge at the turbo, prob not...although i tune BOV's to have no flutter at free revs and light boost. Remember too, when you put those 272 cams in, thats going to hurt your spool up to, by a few hundred rpm.. I dont think you really understand the issue of your spoolup..you think 3500 is fine to you, but you have boost building/pressure issues, and a late spool..something isnt right. Like i said, either your BOV is staying partially open under boost, or a boost leak. This is why you have late spool, and hard time building and maintaining boost. Your prob workin that turbo pretty hard..
|
|
|
Post by Ecl1psE5 on May 29, 2007 16:20:38 GMT -5
Well.. as you asked, it is full boost (20 psi) at or around 3500. and thats a 3rd gear pull from 40 mph.
but that BOV, it needs work, it could even be defective. the normall spring in these BOV's is a 15 psi spring. and so i would assume that even lightly tightened should hold 15, but it doesn't. Also, the more i tighten the adjustment, the worse it gets. Its able to hold more boost, but it doesn't blow off right. Me and TJ think the top is leaking, and that might explain why its not holding boost, because its not equal pressure. When i used the Hand pump it had some issues holding even vac, regardless of the adjustment screw. so it could be the culprit to my problems. But then again, even with the 1g bov i had issues. and as i remember, that actually leaked alot too. so i just need to go back to square one, to a boost leak test, and figure out where my engine is leaking. Until then, i'm going to just loosen that BOV screw so its blowing off as intended, but only being able to boost to 12. and i wont be flooring it anytime soon.
i guess a boost leak test is in my future.
|
|